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Marsha Stevens-Pino joined MCC in 1984 and has been sharing her musical talents in our communities ever since. Marsha shares an abundance of memories from twelve consecutive General Conferences, MCC’s broad diversity and a perspective only a minister among many of our local churches can share. Listen to Marsha’s MCC hiStory online!

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Oral History

Where were you born?

I was born in Pomona, CA.

What place do you call home?

California is always going seem like my home. I grew up in Pomona and Claremont and around the metro of Orange County. Now I live in St. Petersburg, FL but I always consider that temporary. Right now I am from St. Petersburg but really I am from California.

Do you have a life partner or spouse or life partners or spouses you would like to talk about in this interview?

Absolutley, Cindi Stevens–Pino is my wife.

How long have you been together?

We have been married for six years. We celebrate our Anniversary [audio] that was our wedding date. Having kids it was weird because I watched how clearly my kids relationships were [audio]. Were we dating? Were we dating exclusively? From there were we living together and then we were engaged? At all of those intervals their friends would react completely differently [audio].

On our second date someone called her my life partner and I couldn’t say. I was kind of hoping she was my life partner but no she’s not so we tried to be really intentional about using our anniversary date as our date.

Did you grow up in a church or faith community?

My father was a Church of Christ minister who had already been kicked out of a church by the time I was born. So the church we went to when I was younger was a United Church of Christ that would still let him come in and preach sometimes. For me it was a very much of a social situation. So when I say I grew up in church it was what I did on Sunday mornings. It was more about the [audio] and the bible stories than anything that was personal to me. It wasn’t until I was 16 when I became a Christian at Kelly Chapel which was the church of my heart where Jesus transformed my life and where at the time I actually had a wonderful foundation of the bible and I knew all about not excluding anybody which developed into something else.

When did you discover Metropolitan Community Churches and what led you to that search?

In 1979 I came out and lost everything. It was such a devastating time [audio] I lost my ministry and [audio]

I lost custody of my children in California [audio]. I lost my home. The car. I lost everything. So for about five years I completely didn’t have anything to do with the church. My partner who I was with at the time who has sense passed away. My partner at the time had a 14 year old daughter who died of the flu virus that went to her heart. The church said that was God’s judgment on us and I just thought you absolutely can have that God because I don’t want nothing to do with your god. I just missed Jesus too much to stay away. In 1984 I had heard people say there was a Gay church which I just thought it was a kind like a joke or kind of like going to a drag show or like it might be entertaining but in no way thought it was actually church, you know. I found out it was three blocks from my home [audio] in California. So I thought well you know my partner and I are missing it and we are going even if it was sort of like a show. It wouldn’t hurt us to go. I’m like oh shoot this is church. I heard my favorite scripture and had an actual sermon about my life. I could go take community with my family. I was like Rev. Elder Don Eastman said this morning- I just sobbed through the whole thing. I couldn’t even breathe the entire service. Oh Gosh there is other people like me here.

How did you hear about MCC?

I kind of heard around that it was a church but really I thought of it in the way that it was a drag show. There were people that pretend to be a church you know or they laughingly call their selves a church or something like that. I had no idea it was intentionally seriously a church.

You talked a little bit about your first visit can include more detail about that first visit to MCC?

Karen was the pastor. I don’t know think I am going come up with her name. Karen [audio] was the pastor at the MCC Ocean of Life in 1984. She and her partner, as I finally got myself composed to even say good bye and thank you, her spouse / pastors spouse [audio]. I found out there were other churches like this and I was just absolutely startled. I went and found a church that was meeting on Monday night, and then Tuesday night. I drove into North Hollywood on Wednesday night. I drove down to San Diego on Thursday night. On Friday night Troy Perry was speaking at an MCC at the time that was in West Hollywood. It wasn’t the mother church it was a smaller church that used to be in West Hollywood. They were doing what was called a Spiritual Renewal. I didn’t know what that was but anyways I was anxious to meet him. So on Friday night I went to West Hollywood. I don’t know. Troy said he recognized me. I rather suspect someone told him was there. Half way into the service he said I see Marsha Stevens here and I want you to come up and sing your song “For Those Tears I Died.” I was like no no, no I don’t sing or do that stuff from memory. But you know he had the pianist start playing it and I was sucked into the moment so I got up and sang. He came up afterwards after the service as said I want you to write a song for our General Conference it’s called Free to Be. I said “I don’t write songs anymore. I haven’t been in church in 5 years. I don’t have anything to do with stuff. He said Marsha,” How do you know that it wasn’t for such a time as this that you came into the Kingdom of God.” I was I just something just got me. I mean I knew that he must have said that to a thousand people but to me it was just like could I wrap my mind around this that not only am I tolerable to God as it was then but this is where I have plan. So I started writing the song Free To Be for the next General Conference. Then I think two weeks later, we were getting toward the end of 84, they had a music conference. Apparently back then they had music conferences. So I went to the music conference and I had written the words to Free to be but I didn’t have any music for it yet and sitting right behind me this man leaned forward and said, “Marsha” and it was my high school choir director. [audio] So we wrote “Free to Be” for the next general conference together. And then towards the end of that year in November of ‘84 Steve Pieters came to our church. It was the first time I had ever seen and of these people that had weird new disease you know and he looked like a bag of bones. He said you know the doctors told me I wouldn’t even live to the end of this year and look at me now. I am thinking wow you might be speaking a little too soon here you know. I guess he felt great but looked like a mess. Of course he showed up at this conference today in 2007 so it was fabulous to see him. And then the next In ‘85 was the first General Conference I went too. That was the “Free to Be” General Conference in Sacramento, California.

Is there a sermon that you have heard that you just haven’t been able to forget?

Oh many. The first one I am pressed with the most isn’t a sermon exactly it was a bible study on Inclusive Language that Ken Martin did at our little Ocean of Life in 1984. I had the world’s worst time with Inclusive language. He did two things: he approached it entirely from scripture rather than coming in and saying I know what the Kingdom [audio] says but you should know better. He just come in and spoke my language. He spoke my book. He used the scripture to show how inclusive the scripture is in talking about God and how much we are limiting God and then he just said you know if you go into your heart and change and allow God to be more to you in your heart your language about God will change by itself. That just really altered everything I knew and felt about inclusive language.

The then the second one was a sermon by Nancy Wilson that was called, “Do It Again”. She talked about situations or healings in our lives that we are desperate for and we do everything right and it of course it could go into a long story that I won’t put it all onto the tape recorder but I remember most of it. Of course, I was in the middle of losing my kids in a custody battle. She was talking about how we do everything right and you’ve gotten your heart in the right place and you’ve behaved in the right ways and you’ve been forgiving and you’ve been loving and you’ve been persistent and you’ve prayed and you’ve gotten [audio] you know and you’ve done all this stuff. So she talked about a situation in her life where she had done that and she talked to another pastor and said you know, “I’ve done this and this and this and what in the world do I do now?” and the pastor said, “Do it again.” For some reason that just really helped me because I was fighting tooth and nail for my children and it just helped me to just know that someone else had been there so even when it seems like the end it’s not the end. You just do it again and keep doing God’s will until you see the promise come.

Who would you say is the one person that’s influenced you the most in the MCC community?

Well, I mean in the long haul it has to be Nancy but early on it was Freda Smith and Jeri Ann Harvey because they were the ones that really encouraged me to pursue really full time ministry. They gave me just the best counsel. Both of them said do not go into full time ministry until you have a [audio] making job we will not support you in full time ministry until you have a [audio] job to fall back on and oh my gosh what an incredible blessing that has been. They have both been very, very, particular and proprietary about me in my ministry and that really helped me go for it and in going back into ministry again.

You obviously attend an MCC now which one and would you like to talk about it a little bit?

Actually right now I travel so much that I am not always at one MCC all the time. My church family is really at King of Peace MCC in St. Petersburg, Florida. I am not there a lot right now and they are going through a lot of transition right now too. The people there all know me and know what’s going on and they are all on the prayer team and stuff like that so that’s my church home.

What do you like best about your church home?

What I like best about it is that they treat you respectfully but not like you are a celebrity. Like none of them go like, “Oh hi, where have you been?” They all know. You’ve been here and here and we saw you’ve went here and we see that you’re doing this you know so when I’ve been gone for a long time it’s not like, Oh I think I remember you don’t you sing? You know that’s really nice. So on the other hand when I’m there I’m like one of the crowd I’m not like I don’t know somebody they have on a pedestal or make sure that I don’t show up at church looking all scrubby because they wouldn’t like it.

What do you like best about the movement, ministry, and community of MCC in general?

One thing is I simply like our presences. We are spread out and there is a lot of places to go and a lot of things to choose from. I have a harder time buying into the social justice things even though I understand it when I hear it and I think of course you want to right wrongs. I have more of a struggle with that than I do over ministering to spiritual needs and one of the things that I found out in MCC is that that’s okay. That if that’s where I minister and that’s what I’m good at that everybody’s not going to go humph you know [audio] but you’re not doing anything valuable if you’re not doing social justice. In MCC it’s kind of nice that you don’t have to buy into every single project and every single program but you’re allowed to do what you do best. I really like it that we’re not just big enough but broad enough that there’s a place for all of us to have our strengths and work out of our strengths.

You have obviously been to at least two because we talked about it but how many conferences have you been to?

‘85, ‘87, ‘89, ‘91, ‘93, ‘95, ‘97, ‘99, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007; So 12. Everyone since I’ve been in the church.

What do you like best about the General Conferences?

Well seeing everybody and catching up with everybody. I mean I’m heart sick about it going to every three years. I totally understand the reasons but I just think you know will I remember everyone’s faces you know. What are you going to look like three years from now?! But then I see Danny Lee who I haven’t seen in few years and it’s just like we saw each other yesterday. We caught up about so much. So for me it’s really all about getting together, seeing people, and catching up on stories.

What do you remember about the inclusive language or including language project?

I think that 85 must have been the very next or two conferences after because it was 81 or 83 that they had the big [audio] but because I have been through Ken Martin’s class it was so good. By the time I went to Sacramento, keep in mind I had just come in April of ‘84 so in July of ‘85 was my first general conference and already by then when somebody, knowing my fundamentalist background, when somebody came up to me and said did you hear they are praying to the Goddess at one of the services and I said, “do you mean another Goddess?” Everybody kind of went oh, ah?! Although I personally don’t like the dominative anyway I personally don’t even say actress, or waitress, or stewardess, but you know God will answer to whatever. Already by then gathered that we were talking about the one God. I think the fact that I came from such a completely fundamentalist background instead that in 85 sort of kind of [audio] questions to me [audio].

Even today when I go to a independent church that doesn’t use inclusive language literally I have people often come up to me and say Thank you so much for not using inclusive language here which of course I always use but it’s so much a part of me they don’t notice it.

What do you remember about the ordination of women and people of color in MCC?

Nothing by the time I came along Freda Smith, Jeri Ann Harvey, and Nancy Wilson were firmly ensconced.

What do you remember about the beginning of the ministry to Transgender persons?

I thought the transgender people came first so I thought they kind of started the movement so I didn’t know they came later. In less they started, I mean I thought that that was what Christopher Street was about and stuff.

How do you feel that your church handles having transgender people come into that setting?

I don’t anyone really thinks about it anymore other than to try to have affinity groups and stuff like that. I don’t see much other response. I mean sorta of, people relate to it the same way you may say I am not dating so and so anymore, I am dating so or so. And you know they may slip a couple of times and say how is Sue and you say oh no it’s Cindi and they say oh I am sorry yeah right how’s Cindi. I mean it’s sorta like that you know. Or like the person will say aren’t you Katie and the person will say no, no, no, Kevin, oh yeah Kevin how are you doing. It doesn’t really seem to raise eyebrows which may be good or may be bad but it isn’t much of an issue.

What do you remember about the first Children’s Ministry in MCC?

Well my kids were little. My kids were 4 and 6 when I came out. Golly, MCC was just… we didn’t have a formal children’s ministry but everybody adopted my kids. Actually there were a whole bunch of guys at the MCC church In San Diego that is about a hundred miles south of where I lived, and so I would put my kids on a train and they would take the train down to San Diego and the guys from San Diego would just daddy them to death. They would take my son out dune bugging and to a Padres game. They would take my daughter out to fancy dinners and you know she was 14 or 13 years old and pretending that the cute one was her date. You know I mean they just totally played Daddy to them. I guess that not exactly a children’s ministry but it sure was family.

Then when my son was 12 he got into deep, deep, trouble: drugs, alcohol, and, stealing cars. It was just a horrible, horrible downward spiral. That’s was when I finally got custody of my son back because no one wanted him. When I finally got full custody of my son back my church took shift with me and people signed a paper, they signed up for shifts so he was never alone. They went to school with him, sit in class with him, walked between classes with him, walked him home with him, went to the store with him, basically my church was with him or me, of course, was with him 24 hours a day. Of course that was a pretty intense year but both of my kids are wonderful Jesus loving church going. My daughter goes to an MCC Church, my daughter and her husband and family goes to an MCC Church and my son goes to an Assembly of Gods Church and just brought his whole praise band down to sing on the main stage of gay pride. So they turned out okay.

What did you remember about MCC Ministry during the beginning of the AIDS Pandemic?

Golly, It was just so awful. I mean it just seemed like every person I met at church I would think, “I wonder if you are dying.” You know I mean it got to the point that people would ask me to sing at their funeral and you wanted to go, “when is it going to be?” You couldn’t really say yes. I‘d say yes to 20 people and then what am I going to do at your concert at your church so I can’t be there. It was just funeral, after funeral, after funeral. I don’t think I realized how horrifically numb I had gotten to it until I visited my old church, Kelly Chapel, one time and here I am sitting with at least 2,500 people in the sanctuary and they get up to do announcements and said please pray for Michael, the 2nd grade Sunday school teacher, because his mother passed away this week and 2,500 people went AHHH and I thought oh my God. Like, I just didn’t realize what a startling difference it was. We lost ten people in our church that week not somebody’s mother of 2500 you know. I mean it just brought me up just face first into this horror that you know we had come so complacent and I realized it was like if my wife had walked outside and been hit by truck and I called people and said Cindy just got hit by a truck and people go those darn trucks. Her too, huh? You know it was awful to realize you had got so hard. So then I traveled for while with a group called Heartsong and did some music.

When I get on the road myself I would take people who had AIDS on the road with me because I was nurse and they could do things they wouldn’t been able to do otherwise. We hung their ids up on the doorknobs of the motor home and gave them their ids the doctors said you can’t give them 24- nursing care. [audio] We would take people places they have never been and do ministry that was and that was at least something positive I could do. I do remember just feeling like they were shell shocked and just had no idea how to breathe.

How do you feel like that impacted your church ministry as far as its growth?

I don’t know about how it impacted the growth. I just remember thinking about a song that was just about the momentum that we lost. The world just doesn’t understand all of these books that are unwritten, and all these bridges that are un-built and all these dreams that are unfulfilled they were just you know more than the loss of a friend we suffered the loss of what a human being brings to the world. You know it was just overwhelming. I think that you know now people had a tendency to think there is such a preponderance of females in ministry and you know we have so many female elders and all this stuff and people have a tendency to go oh that’s because you’re a gay church or you are pro women’s rights. I think no it’s because they are dead. They would be here. We lost them all.

That’s the end of the list of questions but if there is anything that you want to share or a memory you have or any final worlds feel free to just go ahead.

Golly. It’s so many bazillion memories you know. Notions of people we lost like Jimmy Erwin who we just lost recently and how much he added to the early music ministry and stuff. I think for me the very amazing thing has been how clearly God was doing it even from the beginning, you know, and how things that we could have never have pulled together or made work.

Don Eastman who is retiring here at this conference in 2007 told me that when his mother died, when his mother passed away he went to a funeral with all of his other Assembly of God brothers and sisters and family and everything. I guess towards the end of her life the people little group of people who had cared for her became sort of proprietary about planning the funeral so the family kind of bowed to them and said okay well you guys you know cared for her so much it’s okay you can plan her funeral and Don remembers sitting there in those moments of doubt that come upon you when you have settled every doubt you ever had. Looking around and going oh my gosh is it really possible that all of these people really think that I ‘m alright. [audio] You know what did my Mom really think and you know and whatever. And just then the people who had planned her funeral came out and said one thing we know for sure is that we have to sing her favorite song and they sang my song and “For Those Tears I Died.” God just said I am here. I am really here I planned the whole thing. You know I’ve got it all working together and to me that is just the story of MCC for me is somehow long before any of this could have ever begun to be planned God had put it all together.

Alright. Thank you so much.

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